So I have already mentioned to TJ that I want to post a proper answer: here it is. (Btw, gotta love the ID of the post *hehe*) Also, I will comment on what Hidoshi has posted about humour.
Before commenting anything, let me tell you one crucial opinion I have: What girls want is not what makes you attractive for them. Have you seen this comment with tips by girl? It says:
“2. Pay attention to her words and acts: You must alway keep her in your sight.
3. Help her out whenever possible in things she wants, in ways she tells you: There must be real benefit for her to be hanging around with you.
4. Be prepared: You must be prepared for any unexpected event. This can really impress the girls.”
That’s so incredibly girly and will get you nowhere. If you help her all the time, you will obviously quickly fall into the “best friend, no sex” category. If you always pay attention to her, she will never ever pay attention to you. So never ask a girl for help if you want to get one. If you want advices when you are in a relationship and don’t understand her anymore, that’s something totally different, of course.
About TJ’s 10 points
Since TJ and I have rather similar opinions about relationships, I guess it’s quite obvious that I will agree with him on a lot of points. But still, our experiences have been totally different by now, and that shows:
1. Get a bit camera and profess to be a “photographer”: Would totally work out. Actually being a writer, an artist, a musician, and obviously mostly somebody who can photograph will totally get you an otagirl. There also is another option: Be a great tailor like the guy from Genshiken. He and Ohno are the perfect otaku couple.
2. Write an anime blog or be the owner of a website
If you don’t mind long-distance relationships, this probably is the easiest to get you a girl. Most people who were persistent enough to work on it for years have always found a girl through the internet. And if it’s a chinese girl who wants a permanent residence permit in Germany (now I am being mean, I’m so sorry… sadly it’s true).
3. Be an active member of forums where youngsters (who wants to date old people right?) with similar interests to you congregate.
An absolute must. The younger the girls are, the better. The #animeblogger channel is a no-go, there is only girl who often comes around, which is me.
4. Trash the SOS-dan, Da Capo and other COSPA merchandise.
Actually this is important - you don’t need to look good, really. But you should show a similar fashion taste as the girl you like. If she’s a fujoshi who doesn’t wear any sexy clothes at all, you can keep your SOS-dan shirt. But would you prefer her over the skin-revealing cosplay one?
Also… I don’t think girls are really into weeabo men. Even if they find Gackt good-looking (but even I find Gackt good-looking), they don’t necessarily like those androgynous guys. It really depends.
5. Do not show any girls your moe collection, doujin or hentai series.
Eww, it also depends on the girl, I’m sure, but… girls read yaoi. That’s nothing other than gay porn. So a girl who doesn’t understand moe, doujins and hentai are no appropriate significant others anyways. Unfortunately I’m not befriended with any girls on the internet (I wonder why), but it would surprise me if eroges would really offend them.
6. Be open-minded towards yaoi and other aspects of female fandom, such as cosplay, screaming and bitching.
Feel free to do so, but personally I would never be able to do that. I would probably be able to ignore it and accept it as a part of the girl, because she’s so gorgeous in every other way, but in no ways I could be open-minded about that. But yeah, if you don’t find your Konata and have to deal with an FYG, then it’s true that you might have good chances. However, I really think you deserve better. If Runningkid or Randall would tell me that he’s found an FYG girlfriend, I’d totally not approve.
Point 7 and 8 will be skipped because I totally agree, point 9 comes later.
10. Finally, get to know as many girls as you can.
Hell, no. TJ explains how it biologically works, but even though a girl finds a popular guy attractive, she would probably only want that guy, show off to her friends and then leave him. Or get herself into serious trouble with him and having to listen to her friends telling her daily what an idiot he is. These problems would fall back to you very quickly when you are said popular guy. Also, you can’t turn to the other girls, because you are the idiot already who has messed up with one girl; and then, you have to search for your next circle of girls. Sooner or later, this relationship is not going to last due to strong concurrence and gossip.
The problem of education levels
For a long lasting relationship, I think the biggest problem is still, how to put it, a certain gap in the minds of otakus. Most male otaku I know have an university degree or will get one; most female otaku I know don’t - or are studying something that is usually less money-making and rather looked down upon. Rather, the anime-loving engineering students I know are all guys, and while the girls sometimes know about anime, they never like it. I’m not saying that the sociology major otagirl should be looked down upon or is less intelligent, but I think that a relationship only works when both are on the same level without judging on who is on a ‘higher’ level, both should have a similar goal and similar problems in life etc. From what I know about engineering and management students, mostly their view of life are the direct opposites. This might apply even more to people with and without university degrees. In order to cope with that problem, there probably is only one solution: Don’t go for an otagirl. Make out with an otagirl, but don’t marry her if you get to know that her life is so different from yours, for whatever reason it may be.
The problem of humour
Hidoshi’s post actually is not as bad to read as his other ones - there’s only one pretentious citation in it:
1. Exaggeration is the Key: Only applies to cracking jokes. It might be funny, but it might make you look like an idiot. If you don’t master cracking jokes like TJ or the two people I’ve mentioned, don’t do it. If you master cracking jokes, why are you still reading advices about humour?
2. Don’t be a dick: Believe me, I have made lots of acquaintances and friends during mean-spirited humour. In my opinion, it might also attract a woman, because after all, we all know that girls love talking bad about people. But in the end, I agree with Hidoshi - because if a woman thinks you are a bad person and not attractive, you have totally lost.
3. Don’t laugh: Err, when is she supposed to know when she has to laugh when you don’t? A girl would rather want to laugh with you, not immediately showing how great and funny you are by laughing all by herself. And that does not only apply to the case when she’s laughing out loud already. She needs feedback after all.
4. Chauvinism is your enemy: That’s totally true actually. You may show her your true nature later.
5. Shut up: Hm, no comments.
Humour is often very narrow-minded
So maybe you have already noticed how it is difficult to find somebody who finds your jokes funny. For example, none of the funny anime bloggers (except for TJ) are really popular. However, T.H.A.T. can become popular without any humour at all. So in my opinion, it’s really difficult to find somebody who immediately finds the same things funny as you. While you can discuss about basically everything with everyone, because discussion allows different opinions, humour only allows a very narrow reaction: Laugh or don’t laugh. In or out. Well, it’s difficult enough to find somebody who thinks the same as you, hm?
Jokes aren’t the real thing
Also, there have been two guys in my life who were able to make me laugh on a high level before entering in a relationship to me. Everybody else who has ever cracked a joke has received a weird glance from me. Basically those are people who were perfectly able to adopt any girl’s humour and make them hear exactly what they find funny. Needless to say that even though they don’t have the looks, they always had a girlfriend. To me, this is actually repelling. I knew exactly that these are not things that they find funny themselves, and actually that was the only thing I was interested in. So, cracking jokes - no matter how funny it is - is a no-go.
There is an alternative to that, which is a lot easier, can be done by everybody and doesn’t require much intelligence: Watch a movie, anime or whatever, laugh at the same scenes and talk about it. Turn these scenes into memes so that you feel closer together, because, well, you share a memory. This strategy is more time-consuming, and is actually a lot more suitable if one seeks for a relationship rather than a one-night-stand. In my opinion, it’s easier for a couple to build up a same humour basis - and it’s a lot more honest.
In sum, I don’t think that humour is needed or necessarily the best strategy to get a date, however, I think it is crucial for a relationship to last. Humour can solve small conflicts and it especially makes the relationship lively; at least this is a characteristic of a relationship that I could not miss.
Urks, I messed up
So meh, in the end, I noticed how I am always talking about relationships. I know that you don’t need to think that far and that it’s enough to just have a girl for a few month or years, but well, that’s my opinion. I think having somebody for just a few months is not worth the effort. I got totally off from the topic, and apologize for that. But oh, this is also something really important: More than a typical girl, the otagirl might be more romantic than others, more conservative if she’s asian and therefore more demanding in many ways.
Comments 14
1. Fuck like a champ. Then you can do what you want and she’ll put up with it forever.
Posted 22 Jul 2007 at 03:29 CE(S)T ¶Personally I found a lot of this to be a little closed-minded and biased, but hey this is from another “otagirl”. Haha I have to agree that I haven’t found any friends online that are female either. But I’m not fujoshi or “FYG” as while yaoi doesn’t bother me, it’s not my thing. I’m more into moe aspects anyways. Relationships are always a complicated thing, that’s for sure.
Haha just realized you’re on the ikimashou server. Reminds me of how I need to start up the blog that Randall set up for me… : \
Posted 22 Jul 2007 at 03:33 CE(S)T ¶Everyone has different opinions on relationships really. Another girl wrote a post in response.
http://tsuntsun.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/the-mystery-of-the-female-otaku-uncovered-i-guess/
Relationships are such a touchy issue. As for point number 10, it is a bit controversial but most guys who are attached know it is true. They would always get more love and attention from other girls when they are already attached.
Many girls give relationship advice, which are plainly wrong or serve their own purposes. For most guys, their moms would be the first female to give them tips on how to treat girls. Moms always give advice which would make the son the sort of guy the mom really wants but didn’t get. But the fact is, such guys would never attract girls as easily as the “bad boy”. Or at least a bad boy with niceness underneath, as perceived by a girl.
I need to do a separate post on this.
Posted 22 Jul 2007 at 04:19 CE(S)T ¶Yeah, relationships are rather touchy - since what every person wants, or what other people’s ideas of a relationship are, differ between individuals. Ditto senses of humour: something I find hilarious someone may find horribly dry and boring, because we share different backgrounds and perspectives.
And yes, tj_han, it seems that you do have to be ‘bad’ to get a lot of attention - since nice guys tend to be looked on either as doormats or ‘best friend only’ material… as if there were some drive in most of the women I know to ‘reform’ a male and reshape him into a perfect example through her influence.
Or maybe I just know the wrong women.
Posted 22 Jul 2007 at 04:26 CE(S)T ¶Well, living somewhere in an Asian country, I’ll absolutely not call myself Otagirl. But by US standard, I may be one^^ So I kinda want to contribute something.
STALKING. This is a very serious matter. Gentlemen, I know you fall for her, I understand that you want to keep your angel within sight. Your legs just unconciously drag themselves to where ever she goes, and you think it’s the power of love.
DA~ME! NO!
I don’t know if this kind of things happen in US but it sometimes happen in my country. Usually, the guy doesn’t even realize that what he is doing is stalking! They always say something like “I was not stalking! I did not keep following her through the con either! I just tried to find a chance to talk to her. That’s all!” …maa, I was unfortunate enough to experience that once and, hell, it was freakingly scary.
And there are guys who try to convert their target otagirls into their cults. I understand that it will work better if you and she can share some common interest. However, if your target says she does not like Gundam, for whatever reasons she may have, even though they do not make sense to you, DON’T ARGUE with her. And DON’T even try to talk Gundam into her. She will just run away.
Posted 22 Jul 2007 at 04:44 CE(S)T ¶“That’s so incredibly girly and will get you nowhere. If you help her all the time, you will obviously quickly fall into the “best friend, no sex” category. If you always pay attention to her, she will never ever pay attention to you. So never ask a girl for help if you want to get one.”
Can you explain the rationale behind this, Sasa. I’m really curious what goes through a girl’s mind when this happens, actually.
Posted 22 Jul 2007 at 05:48 CE(S)T ¶Yes, comedy is very important: http://www.xkcd.com/c276.html
Sasa, my new mental image of you is Ohno. =p
Posted 22 Jul 2007 at 06:46 CE(S)T ¶Boys and girls, I have a sad revelation to you all: Establishing a relationship is only half the battle. It is much harder to maintain relationship over long period of time. While I am entering into 11th year of marriage to my wife, I have seen many relationships end with abuse, abortions, and divorce. If the guy don’t pay much attention to you, isn’t interested in helping you, and is generally unprepared whenever you encounter him, what makes you think he will change all that when he started to believe you are his? I hope you reconsider your priority about guys before you do something you will end up regretting forever.
Posted 22 Jul 2007 at 08:04 CE(S)T ¶Hm, maybe I should have formulated it clearer: Relationships are like a (economical) war - you have to cooperate with your partner, but there are always clear conflicts and power struggles. You cannot always be the one who pays attention, helps and prepare everything. (@maglor) Find a balance and don’t necessarily hear girl’s advice, because they will only tell you what you should do for them, not for you.
With that said, it should also be clear that I’ve written this posting for guys who either have never entered into this war or only did for a short period of time. Every single friend I had in school pretended she wanted a nice boyfriend, but in the end slept with the bad boy (including myself, mind you).
@Tess: I have never said that all girls like yaoi. That would be quite a weird thing for say for me anyways. So I’m wondering where I am closed-minded and biased. Would you mind elaborating?
@TJ: Thanks for pointing me to that post, actually she luckily did not drift away from the topic *haha* It’s much nicer and surely less offending than mine even though her tone might sound more offending *ehehe*
But I totally agree with her, except for the “key success factors” of a good relationship. I would say it’s “equal terms in negotiations” which is more important than the other factor “trust”.
Your point 10 is actually true - but getting love from other girls usually means trouble with your one girl, no matter whether you have entered in a relationship with her or not. In my opinion, it’s not actually a recommendable strategy for getting a girl or keeping a good relationship with her.
Feel free to do your separate post on that, I really have the impression that people are too romantic or too narrow-minded to realize the sad truth that in a relationship, the own interests come first and the most important thing is to deal with that.
@Haesslich: Yeah, I totally agree with you. But I think it’s a great thing that everybody wants something different in a relationship. If all people would want the same (or what the majority wants), then I would probably have to stay single forever.
@Curry Raisu: I never had any problem with stalkers (obviously), but I remember that a lot of friends of mine had this problem. Surely, that’s a tough issue and an absolute no-go.
@Owen: What is your question actually? Why and how you are put into the “best friend” category?
@Seth: Haha, gotta love that comic! Actually vissione has already said the same thing… but I don’t really look like Ohno, I don’t have her boobs. But I guess, character-wise, I’m more similar to her than Saki or Ogiue, especially since I always actually had liked other otaku.
Posted 22 Jul 2007 at 09:46 CE(S)T ¶Owen S doesn’t understand the concept of girls classifying guys into “friends” and “lovers”. Ok that calls for some explanation!!
Posted 22 Jul 2007 at 10:17 CE(S)T ¶About the education thing…I’m a female anime fan with a physics degree, I feel so unique
Posted 22 Jul 2007 at 12:17 CE(S)T ¶@Karura: You rule! *highfives* I actually was too coward to go for physics (although I actually wanted *cough*), so… But anyways, I have always suspected you to be an otaku’s perfect girlfriend anyways *g*
@tj: Oho, I’m reading it right now.
Posted 22 Jul 2007 at 12:38 CE(S)T ¶Hm, I´ve watched to much anime but I treat girls nice and no, never tell them about my collection of erostuff, atleast not to them in person :p
I do know that girls like that same stuff, not all of them but some really do like their eroanime…
But all this how to treat girls and behave, well most of it is just being the person I am, caring and friendly. But taking that step from friend to lover? That´s where my problems enter
Anyway, nice post.
Posted 22 Jul 2007 at 13:25 CE(S)T ¶I will say, for the record, that most guys who could be classified as ‘otaku’ have almost zero social skills… which means their idea of attention usually falls into one of two categories:
1) Attention which fails to take into account the other person’s interests. Yes, she may look like Haruhi Fujioka, but she may not necessarily always want to talk about that show or even about anime, even if she is a fangirl. Do NOT press on when confronted with this; look at their interests, and yours, and see what overlaps. What doesn’t overlap, at least get a LITTLE knowledge about so you don’t look at them blankly when they mention something about the subject.
2_ Stalking. Always wanting to hang around, always wanting to be there. ALWAYS. Remember, they’ll want some space too… so give it to them. Conversely, never assume they always want to be alone either, and thus feel free to go off and do your own thing.
Oh… and hide the anime porn collection. No matter how much they say they aren’t shocked, I think most women will at least give you a LITTLE ‘look’ when they see your Haruhi porn doujin… unless they’re YFG’s and you’re into Itsuki/Kyon porn.
Posted 23 Jul 2007 at 07:26 CE(S)T ¶Post a Comment